Archive for the 'Buying and Selling' Category

Becoming an educated eBay buyer is a skill that requires some cultivation:  There’s really no substitute for experience.  The same holds for using Craigslist or shopping at second-hand shops and garage sales.  If you’re buying vintage prams or strollers here are a few tips to give you a jump-start.

First, read listings skeptically.  The phrases “in good condition for its age” doesn’t mean anything unless you know the seller and trust his/her evaluation.  I once saw this term applied to a rusted, broken chassis, which wouldn’t have been in good condition even if it had dated from ancient Rome.

Descriptions in general should be regarded as suspect; they’re very often inaccurate or downright wrong.  If in doubt ask and be specific:  Is the fabric torn?  Is there any rust?  Is the tire rubber damaged?

For example, here’s a description of an Emmaljunga carrycot pram on offer as I write this post:

This is a One-of-a-kind, no longer offered in stores, Classic Emmaljunga Stroller Pram. These strollers are not mass produced.  However, Emmaljunga  sells parts to complete the pram.

The seller’s headline calls this carriage “vintage” and “rare”.  It’s not at all rare; they crop up quite frequently on eBay and elsewhere. It’s not  remotely  “one-of-a-kind”.  And it is probably from the 1980s, which doesn’t even make it properly vintage.

If I wanted to be really picky, I’d point out that this particular model is NOT either a “classic” Emmaljunga stroller OR a pram; it’s a carrycot on a transporter chassis.  It can be called a pram (I did above), but it’s not a classic pram by a long shot.  A classic pram is larger, and would have a steel body (or a wood one, if it were much older and truly vintage).

The seller claims the frame material is aluminum; it’s actually chromed steel.

The statement “these strollers are not mass produced” is TWO outright lies.  First, it’s not a stroller, and secondly, it most definitely WAS mass-produced. In a factory, by machines.  To claim otherwise is just bizarre, as just about anyone can tell simply by looking at it.  Stroller seats were available for these frames, but this seller is not offering one, which makes this description all the more misleading, as this is a carrycot bed, and no kind of stroller.

Further, the statement that “Emmaljunga sells parts to complete the pram” is misleading and irrelevant:  Emmaljunga no longer sells anything in the USA, and no longer sells this model anywhere.  If this carriage actually needs parts, it won’t be possible to get them, period.  This seller, like many, has just written whatever he/she felt like writing — and what he/she thought would sell the item.

The seller also believes that Emmaljunga’s address (“28022 vittsjo”) is a model number.  That would be wrong; it’s the city in Sweden where Emmaljunga is located.

And the seller’s “Buy It Now” price of $300?  It’s ridiculous; just a few weeks ago this very model, with accessories this seller doesn’t have, without the interior tear, sold on eBay for under $30.00.

Keep this example in mind as you read on; it’s illustrative.

Don’t trust any eBay seller’s dating of a pram or a stroller, unless they have a nearly perfect positive rating, and some specific information to back up his/her claim.  In my experience, eBay sellers are wrong about the dates for vintage strollers and prams roughly 95% of the time.  The other 5% are clear about not knowing dates (“I think this is from 1950, but I don’t really know”) or can back up their date claim.  (“I bought this stroller in 1970 for my first child.”)

The word “leather” in virtually any pram or stroller listing is wrong.  Dead wrong.  Emmaljunga strollers are frequently described as being made of leather, as are older US baby carriages.  They’re not;  they’re made of vinyl or leather-like vinyl or “leatherette” material.

Production post-WWII strollers and carriages were not made of leather, almost without exception (one exception, though, is noted below).  Nor were pre-WWII strollers made of leather, as a rule, although there may be a very few exceptions from early in the 20th century.  Those would be true antiques, and if you’re going to buy anything that old, or potentially valuable, it would be best to ascertain that the description is perfectly accurate in every particular before parting with your cold, hard cash.

Maclaren does offer an leather-seated umbrella-style stroller, but it’s modern and was originally sold (may still be sold) for around $1,000.00.  If you think you’re buying that particular stroller, verify it.  Otherwise, the use of the word “leather” is a sure give-away that the seller is exaggerating or mis-representing his/her goods.

Be suspicious of the words “vintage” and “antique”. In general, a “vintage” pram would be one that was made post-WWII, and an “antique” would be pre-WWII.  Sellers use these terms indiscriminately, and sometimes even describe contemporary strollers or prams using these terms.  Don’t assume they are correct.

Watch out for hyperbole in descriptions. “The Cadillac of baby carriages” is a meaningless phrase, meant to excite a potential buyer.  In my experience, this kind of writing is used by sellers instead of meaningful descriptions of condition or age.  Watch out for this; don’t let the seller distract you by evoking an emotional response that has nothing to do with what’s being sold.

Be very wary of any seller’s claims that a stroller or pram is worth any specific amount. These claims will almost always be inaccurate.  Unless you can verify them, don’t believe a seller who says that a pram or stroller “sells” for XXX dollars; the claim will almost always be wrong.

For example, this current eBay listing is offering a used “Silver Cross Kensington pram” with a corduroy-like body for nearly three times what it cost, brand-new, in 1985!

A quick look at “completed” auctions on eBay will demonstrate exactly how deluded is the “buy it now” price of $975.00. Not to mention that you could buy a brand-new Inglesina Classica, instead, for $275.00 less than this seller wants for this lower-end, 25-year-old used carriage.

Another Internet search will reveal that the the seller’s claim that the current Kensington model sells for $1,995.00 is completely irrelevant to this sale.  That’s because the $1,995.00 model is a completely different type of pram.  Here’s the cheaper, used, cloth version:

And here’s the classic, $2,000.00 version, which features a steel body, a larger, more elaborate chassis, a fitted basket, and elegant dual-sized tires (every bit of it brand-new):

Comparing the two is like comparing persimmons and turnips.  There’s nothing wrong with a turnip, but it’s definitely NOT a persimmon.  Even when the cord Silver Cross was new, it wasn’t on the same luxury tier as the steel-bodied prams.

Further, this seller lifted his/her detailed description from a current website (you can view it here at the Silver Cross America website), and, of course, what he/she then posted on eBay has nothing to do with the pram first sold in 1985.  The sizes and weight are not accurate for the model the seller has listed; the seller’s model does not have a “steel body”; the entire description only applies to the 2010 Kensington, not to the eBay listing.

(For a thorough look at the value of used/old/vintage strollers and prams,and a much more realistic idea of what this seller could expect to get for a used pram,  see What Is My Stroller/Pram/Baby Carriage Worth?)

Make sure that you know what you are buying. This current listing is for a doll stroller:

The seller mentions dolls, and mentions that the stroller is in “played with” condition  (which, in this case, includes “rust”, “some stains” and “some wear”) but does not make it clear that this is not a full-size double stroller.  The listing header does not say “Double Doll Stroller”.  (We own this doll stroller, and paid $24.00 for it, brand-new, in 1988.)  That $75.00 “buy it now” price might lead a customer to assume that this is full-sized baby transport.   It would be quite unusual for a modern doll stroller of this size and type to sell for this much.

At any given time there are always a number of listing for doll carriages that sellers describe as being baby carriages — some of these are innocent mistakes or just carelessness, but some are clearly dishonest.  Make sure you know what you’re bidding on.  If the actual dimensions of the item aren’t included, and you aren’t certain you know the size, email the seller to find out for sure.

There’s no reason not to buy a used, older, or vintage pram, but it’s to your advantage to keep your wits about you when shopping.  And sellers?  You’ve got a much better chance of selling your goods if you, too, know  what you’re doing — and are smart, accurate, and honest about it.

This post is the first of two.  The second post, which will show up in a few days, will give some examples of what I discuss here.

The  most common question sent to me, as Curator of The Pram Museum, is the one above:  “What is my stroller/pram/carriage worth?”  There’s a short answer, and a long answer.  The short answer is this one:

It’s worth what someone will pay for it.  No more.

Here’s the long answer:

With rare exceptions, the most popular models (the ones that look like  pretty, usable, or classic baby carriages) generally sell for from 30 to 60 dollars, occasionally up to 100 dollars.  But — and it’s a huge qualification — that’s if they sell at all.

As strange as it seems, sometimes it’s impossible to give a pram away.

The problem is finding someone who will buy it.  Does that sound odd?  Doesn’t everyone love old prams?  Well, yes.  Loving a pram, though, is a completely different matter than storing one. Few people have the room to store a buggy the size of a small couch, or, these days, a lifestyle that lets them use a baby’s vehicle that’s larger and bulkier than an adult mountain bike.   For instance, you won’t be putting a pram into the back of a mini-van if anyone else needs a seat.

As a result, valuing a pram or vintage carriage or stroller is tricky.  In general, the values I cite above are accurate, with a few exceptions.  Currently, one exception would be the more modern prams from the 1970s and later made by Perego — which can go as high as $200.00 [USD] if they are in excellent shape and/or come with the complete stroller attachments as well as the pram bodies.

Peregos  may sell better than other brands because the brand is a current one — Peg Perego makes hugely popular contemporary strollers and has an excellent reputation for quality, both now and then.  Another exception, though, is any clean, attractive, pram that looks usable for a modern baby; the price point always may be higher if someone actually intends to use the carriage.  Used Emmaljungas from the 1980s and 1990s may bring a slightly higher price, too.

Another exception is the Inglesina classic prams, which are still sold, new, in the USA.  Used Inglesinas, with or without the corresponding stroller seat, often sell for $400 to $600.  (Depending on the model, a new set costs around $1,000.)  And there’s always another exception — the buyer who falls in love with yours and must have it, no matter the price.  It’s rare, but it does happen.  The sky can be the limit in this case — but it’s a very rare exception.

In other words, it’s always possible that you might find a buyer who would pay  more than is typical — maybe a lot more.  But, it’s not likely, and it’s finding the buyer that is the issue.

Even if you do find a buyer, geography can be a significant obstacle.  Some strollers can be shipped conventionally with careful packing (I’ve done it myself; others have also shipped foldable models to me this way.)  Full-size carriages and prams are another matter.

Vintage Peregos can be broken down carefully, if you know how to do it, and shipped in several cartons — but they’re still heavy, and it’s expensive.  Other vintage prams must be crated, and shipped by bus, train, or truck, often at a cost of several hundred dollars or more — along with a lot of inconvenience.  (You may need a truck yourself to pick it up at a freight depot.)  Most people aren’t willing to go to these lengths to own a baby carriage that they’ll use for only a brief period of time.

Collectors are a different matter, but, even for collectors, the transportation issue isn’t trivial.  We’ve taken some crazy trips ourselves to pick up prams, but even we have had to pass up some lovely things when geography proved too much of an obstacle.

Strollers, whether a $1,000 Orbit, a Stokke, or whatever, are not an investment.  They are transportation.  Nor is that vintage pram you  covet an investment.  If you love it, buy it and hope you can sell it if you need to, or want to, but don’t expect it to appreciate in value; that’s extremely unlikely to happen.

Even your trendy Bugaboo only has value as long as a market exists; if it hasn’t been beaten up too much in use; if there aren’t a huge number of similar used ones available; and if there are people with disposable income who want to buy one.  And even then, you won’t set the price; the market will.  And it won’t be nearly what you paid for it new, almost certainly.

Related:  What’s It Worth?  Part 2